Tuesday, June 23, 2009

From SanMigMike: "I think that we all have to take some of the responsibility for our current mess. Much to my regret we have had to vote for the "Lesser of the Evils" or the "Democrat in Name Only" far too often. We have allowed ourselves to be divided by sideshow differences so that both parties can be bought and used by big business." - no, this is blaming the victim, she shouldn’t have worn that dress thinking. The people making the decisions knew exactly what they were doing and are the only people to blame. Could average people have done more? Yes, but that doesn’t change anything. Everybody was told loudly and often that this is the natural order of things and it didn’t occur to them to do anything different. prairie2

"As an experiment it is obvious that Capitalism has failed, just like Communism it is a great idea until people get to making it better for themselves." - Capitalism has worked just fine for the capitalists. The problem is that most Americans aren’t really capitalists. The mom and pop store thinks he is a capitalist but it is Walmart that is the capitalist. Americans are just grist to be ground in the capitalist mill.

"Like the old line about everything looks like a nail to a man with a hammer, so long as the people pulling the levers have a stake in keeping the existing banking and health systems going we will have no real change. We will pay the price for trying to keep a crippled and failed system struggling along a few more years until we get to try to live through an even bigger crash." - these boom and bust cycles have been going on for 150 years with only the occasional rise of progresive reform to push them back. The only difference this time is the bust is getting so big that even the Republican base is starting to notice.

4 comments:

SanMigMike said...

"no, this is blaming the victim, she shouldn’t have worn that dress thinking. The people making the decisions knew exactly what they were doing and are the only people to blame."

Well, I feel that America has a very uninformed electorate. The two parties really like it that way. In California the chance of me meeting or talking to one of our Senators was nil. I met our Congress women, the old one was horrible in several ways and the last one was good, but I just met her. Oregon is different and I have met one of our Senators, and talked to them and talked to our old Congresswoman three or four times.

But I still think we have to bear part of the blame, like Republicans voting for their party since it is the party of financial responsibility...ignoring the record of Republican Presidents since WW II. I am sure that in most other first world countries there is a larger turn out of voters and a more informed electorate.

All too many of us do not read, make no attempt to stay informed and do not write or call our "leadership".

prairie2 said...

I want to stamp out this way of thinking. It plays into the Republicans hands that we all "share responsibility". In the simplest terms, yes, we could change things if everybody voted the "right way" but that's not why we are in the mess we are in. What has happened is the result of an ongoing criminal conspiracy. The people that systematically dismantled or ignored all the laws passed by the Progressives of the 19th and early 20th centuries knew exactly what they were doing. Nobody else shares responsibility unless you voted for or gave money to politicians you knew were going to help you and screw everybody else. Complacency may have allowed these criminals the to gut our country but it is a fact of life that people are complacent until bitten on the ass.

SanMigMike said...

Ahh, but the simple fact is that WE elected those people while others paid them to do their bidding. Even now we have people working two or three jobs, all part time and no benefits, no insurance, a crappy car and dump apartment or ramshackle trailer and they still vote Republican... The question is why do they vote for people that view them in contempt and screw them over? Why?

If others had been elected we would still have gone down this path (looking at all the DINO's) but we would not be this far down it. The Republicans have done far better then the Liberals at framing the discussion and moving the whole concept of the "Middle" far to the right.

If Ronnie had not been elected and then re-elected where would we be? If Bush I had not be elected? Then of course if Bush II had not come to power (elected or not he and the people using him got the power for eight years and how many of us took to the streets in protest? People in Iran are showing more guts than we did!) and how long will his Justice choices be activist Judges?...he picked young guys for a very good reason!.

The "good" thing if anything is good about this is enough people might wake up and see what has happened to them and to our country. The Soviet Union, East Germany changed when enough people wanted real change. Are we there yet? I don't know.

No matter what the polls say a Republican or DINO Senator or Congressman can say that his people don't want real change since if they elected him they must mean that don't really want real change and his (or her) paymasters will get what they pay for...no real change.

Every person that does not vote, every one issue voter, every person that doesn't really study the issues and vote for what is best for the country and best for them...bears some of the blame for our current mess. I've worked some in most of the recent elections but I know I could have worked more hours, walked more precincts...I blame myself for some of this mess!

Just like a Union, our system requires us to be part of it or accept what we get. If we get something we don't like and we didn't work our butt off fighting it...

SanMigMike said...

- Capitalism has worked just fine for the capitalists. The problem is that most Americans aren’t really capitalists. The mom and pop store thinks he is a capitalist but it is Walmart that is the capitalist. Americans are just grist to be ground in the capitalist mill.


How true, how true, how true. So few of those salt of the earth main street people understand that people that have money and power use that to try to drive them out of business.

How did the idea that what is good for Wall Street is great for the rest of us? I can recall talking to one CEO I worked for and his comment was that the stock price was only useful to him as it determined how much money the company could borrow. A company could be profitable but unloved by Wall Street and be worth nothing and we know about the Dot-Com boom among other things and "value" as seem by Wall Street. A guy that tears apart companies can be loved by Wall Street until the whole mess collapses. Wall Street loves a company that is shafting Main Street and the worker living on Mockingbird Lane. So why save our current Wall Street?

On the other hand we also have to keep in mind how many union members shop at Walmart, a company that grinds the people they employ down as well as grind down their suppliers. Why do so many Americans shop at a company that waves the flag at the same time they try to destroy America?

As time goes on we will see more jobs exported...after all, if a call center can work being based in India why can't an Indian or Chinese Doctor read my X-rays or MRI's? Be a lot cheaper for the insurance company and I bet the quality might be more to the insurance companies liking. Pity some of those CEO's had to take massive pay cuts to only $12,000,000 for a year's work.

Funny how Wall Street and some big companies have to pay millions and give millions in bonuses even when they are having to cut back or take a government hand out. No wonder we don't have good government, teachers, cops, pilots, or even Doctors...just can't good help for less than a couple of million. Terrible!